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No sign posted at the mall

rjrivero

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#21
Sorry, the sign does not carry any force of law. If you are discovered to be CC all they can do is tell you to leave. If you don't leave,yes, your PRESENCE is subject to trespass, but your carrying has no bearing. Thus the no carry sign has no bearing on private property.

The exception would be courts, govt offices, post offices, some National parks, etc.

Just having a sign though does not make it illegal.

Whoever taught you,taught you wrong...
The "force of law" is defined in ORC 2923.126 (C ),(3),(a). It's written in the Ohio Law.

ORC 2923.126(C )(3)(a) said:
(a) Except as provided in division (C)(3)(b) of this section, the owner or person in control of private land or premises, and a private person or entity leasing land or premises owned by the state, the United States, or a political subdivision of the state or the United States, may post a sign in a conspicuous location on that land or on those premises prohibiting persons from carrying firearms or concealed firearms on or onto that land or those premises. Except as otherwise provided in this division, a person who knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature is guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21of the Revised Code and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the fourth degree. If a person knowingly violates a posted prohibition of that nature and the posted land or premises primarily was a parking lot or other parking facility, the person is not guilty of criminal trespass in violation of division (A)(4) of section 2911.21 of the Revised Code and instead is subject only to a civil cause of action for trespass based on the violation.
To my knowledge no one has yet set case law for this statute. So if you know the proper authority doesn't allow Concealed Carry by virtue of a "conspicuous sign" and you violate that rule, the "law" says you're guilty of "criminal trespass."

Please cite the portion of the ORC that says a conspicuous sign does NOT carry the "force of law."
 
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#22
The sign means you can be convicted of trespass...IF someone discovers you are carrying...

The sign does NOT convict you of illegally carrying a firearm.

I believe this is what we've been saying.

It's a legal minefield out there and you need someone skilled in not only the legalities, but also in deciphering what law is being broken in the event you are discovered to be carrying.

After all, it's the carrying of firearms we are all concerned with, right? :)
 
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#23
If your correctly carrying concealed, no one is going to know anyways. Now if it's a place that has a highly visible sign that I can't miss, then ok I won't carry there. I remember a week after I got my permit, my girlfriend and I went to a bar because she had forgotten her license from the night before. As we went to walk in, I was looking for a sign and did noticed in VERY small print a little sign off to the side saying no guns. Me being new to carrying waited in the street for her to come back out. Today, if I ran into the same situation, I wouldn't even think twice about walking in, I would just go in. If your not going to take the time to make it clearly visible as I'm walking in, then you clearly don't care that much about the issue.


A question that has come up between my friends and I is carrying in a Post Office. Is it a federal building? When I was taking my concealed concealed carry course, the instructor mentioned that most post office buildings are rented from a non-government owner, therefore leaving it up to the landlord to decide wether or not people could carry there because it was HIS property, not the governments. Anyone have any idea on that?


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ADulay

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#24
A question that has come up between my friends and I is carrying in a Post Office. Is it a federal building? When I was taking my concealed concealed carry course, the instructor mentioned that most post office buildings are rented from a non-government owner, therefore leaving it up to the landlord to decide wether or not people could carry there because it was HIS property, not the governments. Anyone have any idea on that?
Yes, I do have an idea on that.

That instructor was 100% incorrect.

(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.


If you should have a building with multiple tenants and one of them is a Federal office (Post Office, etc) then only the Federal part of that building is off limits, not the rest of the building.

Now, I know many people who DO carry into and out of a Post Office and that's why it's called CONCEALED carry.

Not that I would do it, of course. :no:

AD
 
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#25
First of all, federal code forbids carrying on postal property and that includes the parking lot.

PART 232—CONDUCT ON POSTAL PROPERTY

Authority:
18 U.S.C. 13, 3061, 3571; 21 U.S.C. 802, 844; 39 U.S.C. 401, 403(b)(3), 404(a)(7), 1201(2).


§ 232.1
Conduct on postal property.
(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

(l) Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2013-title39-vol1/xml/CFR-2013-title39-vol1.xml

Second, Ohio law makes it a felony.

(B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

(10) A place in which federal law prohibits the carrying of handguns.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.126v2
 
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#26
RT48 is correct. And remember you represent all gun owners to most people with whom you interact.

Sent from somewhere between the Ohio territory & the neutral zone.