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No sign posted at the mall

whitewolf68

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#1
Recently I was dropping my wife off at the mall while I was carrying. I did remove my pistol and lock in the car until I had proof that I was good to go. When I got to the door there was no sign posted on the exterior of the doors or entrance anywhere. After getting past the second set of doors there was a code of conduct sign in a free standing poster holder as you enter. After reading that and getting to point #3 it did state that weapons up to and including firearms were not permitted on the premises.


I am very curious what the legalities of this are. As you walk in there, there is also a security desk where the Toledo Police work security along with the mall security. I've not challenged the sign as of yet.
 
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#2
Gotta be quick.. I posted a longer response ans I timed out and lost it. Basically, you are looking too hard for signs. If it's not in your face at the door, carry away. If caught play dumb. Leave when discovered and asked to do so. It's all about knowingly violating the CPZ if it is properly posted, which it is not.
 

whitewolf68

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#3
Sorry about the lost response. That does happen sometimes, I think it is just the board software that acts up. Your probably right about me looking too hard for signs but I have to kinda play it on the safe side because of my wife's job. I just find it hard to believe that they expect people to read that entire poster with their "Code of Conduct". It basically dis-allows even pocket knives. LMAO

I do agree though about playing dumb about the rules because there really is no CPZ sign at the entry doors like there should be. :)
 
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#4
Here's the other point about malls: Most if not all of them have anchor stores. Those stores, are rarely or never posted. Those same stores have access to the main mall, and those entrances are not posted either. Anchor stores are your friend. The cameras have you coming into the mall through a post free entrance. You are completely in the clear. It's not your fault the mall is too lazy and/or stupid to declare their intentions.
 

whitewolf68

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#5
That is a very good point. We usually enter at the food court because of the parking garage. I will have to try another entrance that way I can play stupid. We have had so many problems at the mall because of unruly teens the have both a police presents and security guards.
 

whitewolf68

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#6
Went to the mall on Saturday with my wife while armed. We did enter through an anchor store and sure enough there were no CPZ's to be had at all. Walked all over the mall with no problems but then again I was concealed at the time to avoid said problems. :) I did make a couple of comments to one salesperson about being a human hanger rack and my wife agreed but also said "he is that plus my bodygaurd". LOL

Overall it was a good day and she did get her shopping done.

Here's the other point about malls: Most if not all of them have anchor stores. Those stores, are rarely or never posted. Those same stores have access to the main mall, and those entrances are not posted either. Anchor stores are your friend. The cameras have you coming into the mall through a post free entrance. You are completely in the clear. It's not your fault the mall is too lazy and/or stupid to declare their intentions.
 
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#7
I don't think the Mall can post the entrances to the anchor stores. Those stores essentially own those doors.

Although, I suppose the mall could post signs at the store-to-mall entrance way....
 

whitewolf68

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#8
I do believe you are correct. I know that the mall entrances have the code of conduct signs but nothing conspicuous and I've not seen anything posted at the other anchor store entrances. =)
 

rjrivero

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#9
Franklin Park Mall? I've carried there for years. Never an issue. We had my daughters 6th birthday party at the Build a Bear there. Carried one of my "dress up" revolvers for that party. :thumbs:
 
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#10
The state has specific requirements about signage to restrict carrying a weapon concealed. The following statement by 2923.1212 [Effective Until 1/1/2014] Signage prohibiting concealed handguns must be displayed openly for their restrictions to carry be valid. “Unless otherwise authorized by law, pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code, no person shall knowingly possess, have under the person’s control, convey, or attempt to convey a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance onto these premises.”
The problem with the law is it doesn't say just exactly how conspicuous this signage must be to be valid. Furthermore courts don't really accepted ignorance of the law as a valid defense. Good Luck.
 

whitewolf68

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#11
Yeah I am VERY cautious when I go there and unfortunately dis-arm. It goes against every part of my being but I do follow the law and their wishes.
 

PrepperTraining

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#12
Thanks for the citation DogShawRed. I work in MN most of the year and the rules here are a bit friendlier. Most businesses don't post proper signage. Here there is a specific requirement even specifying a minimum font size, etc. Basically if you're caught even if the business is properly signed, they simply ask you to leave and if you don't it's a trespassing charge ($25.00 fine, misdemeanor). Secondly there is a stipulation that landlords cannot prevent their lessees or their guests from concealed carry. That also applies to mall property since most of those stores rent space from the mall.

Keep in mind that these are the rules in Minnesota.

I am coming back home in a few weeks, so it's good to know the rules back in Ohio.
 
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#13
Are you in violation of the law if you have a concealled gun if they have a no gun sign?

In delaware they dont hold the force of law. We have to be asked to leave and if we dont its a criminal trespass, but as crazy as people are I carry everyplace not prohibited by law like a post office.
 

whitewolf68

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#14
That is my question as well. I have been wanting to as ask the Police officers on duty on the weekends about that as well but I am sure I will get a resounding "Yes". They have a "Code of conduct" posted at the doors to the mall entrances and nothing like the actual no carry signs.
 
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#15
That is my question as well. I have been wanting to as ask the Police officers on duty on the weekends about that as well but I am sure I will get a resounding "Yes". They have a "Code of conduct" posted at the doors to the mall entrances and nothing like the actual no carry signs.

That school that all those kids were murdered at had 'No gun" signs as well. I think no gun sighs almost say to someone "hey if you are a psycho come here. There is no one to fight you"

Gun Free Zones - 1/2 Hour News Hour - YouTube

Another thing we have been doing in my current home ( possibly relocating in a couple years) is that we don't do business ( if possible) with places that are anti-gun and we let them know it as well.
 

rjrivero

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#16
Are you in violation of the law if you have a concealled gun if they have a no gun sign?

In delaware they dont hold the force of law. We have to be asked to leave and if we dont its a criminal trespass, but as crazy as people are I carry everyplace not prohibited by law like a post office.
They do carry the force of law. However, you are subject to a misdemenor Trespass. So pick your poison.
 
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#17
Maybe its me

But people can wear masks in pulbic ( muslim gard) and they cant stop it or guys can kiss each other and that is ok and a place cant stop it even if they want to yet they can trample my rights as a gun owner.


Reading through the thread anchor stores as probably the best way to go.
 
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#18
Alright, a lot of people won't agree with this, but other than government buildings I carry everywhere. Concealed means just that, concealed.

The only way someone is going to know I'm armed is after I draw. If I have to pull my sidearm it's because bad things are happening and no one is going to be thinking of those stupid signs.

Sent from my PantechP4100 using Tapatalk
 
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#19
They do carry the force of law. However, you are subject to a misdemenor Trespass. So pick your poison.
Sorry, the sign does not carry any force of law. If you are discovered to be CC all they can do is tell you to leave. If you don't leave,yes, your PRESENCE is subject to trespass, but your carrying has no bearing. Thus the no carry sign has no bearing on private property.

The exception would be courts, govt offices, post offices, some National parks, etc.

Just having a sign though does not make it illegal.

Whoever taught you,taught you wrong...
 

ADulay

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#20
Alright, a lot of people won't agree with this, but other than government buildings I carry everywhere. Concealed means just that, concealed.

The only way someone is going to know I'm armed is after I draw. If I have to pull my sidearm it's because bad things are happening and no one is going to be thinking of those stupid signs.
The signs carry no weight of law. However, if asked to leave by an "appropriate" authority, you must leave or be subject to misdemeanor trespass charges.

I carry 24/7 to include the malls, movies and pretty much everywhere else not regulated by law, and then a few of those too.

Concealed carry is just what it says: concealed!

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